Theresa J. Morse Transcript
Emily Mehlman: – know what the problem was – the extension cord – the openings with the extension cord didn't seem to be working, so I turned it around. So please sit down.
Theresa Morse: I don't need to be there. Would you [inaudible]?
EM: You sit wherever you like because –
TM: Alright, it doesn't matter. [inaudible] easy, and I just put this paper and pencil out.
EM: Well, I just want to make a few preliminary remarks today. This is tape one, side A. Today is Tuesday, February 16th, 1993, and this is Emily Mehlman. I'm about to record an oral history memoir of Theresa Morse, currently residing at 1010 Memorial Drive, Cambridge. All right, may I call you Therese?
TM: Oh, darling. I’d much rather have you [inaudible].
EM: I've been looking forward to –
TM: Anything else would be dreadful.
EM: No, I've known you casually now for almost fifteen years.
TM: [inaudible] friendly way.
EM: That's right, and I've been looking forward to –
TM: Affectionate way, if I might say so.
EM: I agree. Thank you. Thank you very much.
TM: I always think you’re a very special lady.
EM: I think you’re a very special lady too, and that's why I asked if I could do you.
TM: [inaudible] My background is kind of odd. I didn't make notes, but I did think about where I came from and what I did.
EM: Can we start at the beginning?
TM: Yes.
EM: Are you willing to reveal your birthday?
TM: Sure.
EM: Go ahead.
TM: June 4, 1909. [inaudible] you know I'm eighty-three.
EM: You look great. I know you've had a little trouble with your leg, but that too will pass.
TM: Anyway, I know I'm lucky and get around. I can still drive. This just happened to be a nuisance now, the last week or two, but never mind. I still like doing things, going to things, going to concerts, and seeing what [inaudible] not as active as I was, and I stopped. I realize I'm an elderly lady now, and things are a little more drifting; they're not as active. I feel as active [inaudible] even though I'm interested [inaudible] and I've connected still with some [inaudible] community [inaudible] tend to do.
EM: I want to talk about all of that, but –
TM: You want me to go back?
EM: – I think I’d like to go back to your origins, to your being born and your parents, your parent life, and things like that.
TM: I’ll be glad to do that. Well, I was born in 1909 in Long Island, Lawrence, Long Island. My parents had lived in New York. Well, I lived with my mother's mother before they had a big house on 72nd Street, New York. I had two older brothers. My parents decided they wanted to go to the country [inaudible] and build a sizable [inaudible] very pleasant house.
EM: What was your name?
TM: Jacobson. Theresa Jacobson. My father was Charles Jacobson.
EM: And your mother?
TM: My mother was Emily Metzger Jacobson. They both came from German parenting.
EM: Were they both born in the United States?
TM: Both were born in the United States.
EM: But their parents came from Germany.
TM: Both parents came from Germany. And my mother's parents, I believe, came over in about 1948.
EM: 1848.
TM: 1848. That period [inaudible].
EM: The Revolutionary period.
TM: That’s right. They came then, and my grandfather – I only knew one grandparent ever, and that was my mother's mother, and she certainly was German, and she taught German, and I learned German. I spoke German when I was a little girl, not only of course [inaudible], but I did have a German nurse for a while, until war came in –
EM: The First World War?
TM: The First World War, yes. But we did live in the country.
EM: And this is what, in Lawrence?
TM: Lawrence, Long Island. It became known – and it’s still known – as the five cities [inaudible] Lawrence, Cedarhurst, that whole area.
EM: Did you grow up with servants?
TM: Yes, I did.
EM: What kind of work did your father do?
TM: My father, as a young man, really earned. He was one of those many who earned his own living. His German parentage – I don't know very much about his parentage, excepting that my mother always said his mother was a wonderful, lovely woman. Everybody was [inaudible]. His father, I think, was more difficult and had difficulties in business. He failed in business or whatever. And then my father, as a young man, had to go to school somewhat, but also earned his living and worked in a department store [inaudible] store or whatever, and was a salesman, and was apparently very able and very ambitious, and did extremely well and rose in the ranks and did very well. It was a linen import business, linen and various kinds of textiles. Exactly how he met my mother – there was a whole lot of large, Jewish, reasonably well-off community, not that he was very wealthy, but there were a lot of people. My mother's father – the name was Metzger, and he was – as I remember, as I think I know, he was a wholesale butcher.
EM: The name means – Metzger means butcher.
TM: In German, I know. And in New York, with some other partners by the name of Strauss. I'm ashamed to tell you how little I know about the forebears. Anyway, he must have been extremely successful, because he died when my mother was a little girl, and he was about fifty, but he already had established – they lived in a very nice house on 72nd Street, and she had two sisters and two brothers. The men became partners. My father and my mother's brother became partners and became the firm of Campbell, Metzger, and Jacobson.
EM: What kind of firm was it?
TM: It was a firm of importing linen.
EM: Oh, so they maintained that. Your father stayed in the business.
TM: They maintained that. Absolutely. It grew, and it became a very big [inaudible] successful firm. My father was a great salesman. He enjoyed people, liked people very much. He was very pleasant with people. Anyway, he was apparently an excellent salesman. He took the business to different parts of the country and made contact with it, and the others were reasonably able. Anyway, it prospered, and it was very successful because my grandmother lived very comfortably. Even though her husband had died, she lived very comfortably in this house on 72nd Street. Had servants even then.
EM: Now, when you were born, were you already living in Lawrence?
TM: I was already living in Lawrence, and they built the house before I was born.
EM: Do you have brothers and sisters?
TM: I have two older brothers. Both brothers lived in New York for a while, although the younger one, I think, came to the country with them quickly. But my older brother then commuted to the Ethical Culture School in New York –
EM: That’s quite a trip.
TM: – even though he lived in the country. My father went to town every day [inaudible].
EM: He took him?
TM: Took him [inaudible]. Anyway, he was very independent [inaudible]. He grew up in the early years at Ethical Culture School.
EM: What about your education?
TM: Well, my education was kind of interesting because my parents became associated with a – it was a Jewish group, but it was an intelligent and very liberal Jewish group, maybe some mixture, and they didn't think that the school, the public school in Lawrence, I guess it was, was good enough. They decided they wanted to start another school, and they did start another school. They started another school in conjunction with the New York Ethical Culture School, with John Elliott, who became a very good friend and a very good advisor to them, advised them in many ways about the school, and finally supplied the remarkable lady who became the headmistress there. The school started as a small school. I started in it in the fourth grade, in the country, and it grew, and it became as enormous as it is now. It's the Woodmere Academy.
EM: I've heard of it.
TM: It's a very successful one. Has had a very high academic record.
EM: And you stayed there?
TM: I stayed there from kindergarten and went right through. Now, my brothers didn't. My oldest brother graduated from Ethical Culture School, and there was certainly a feeling of Ethical Culture spirit that came to our school, too. Although most of the children, most of the parents were Jewish, no question about that, it was identification, and we [inaudible] temple there.
EM: Which temple was it, do you remember, in Lawrence?
TM: [inaudible]
EM: Reform temple?
TM: I was married by [inaudible], such a lovely man. [inaudible].
EM: It’ll come to you.
TM: I did not, however, have – what you call – very much of a Jewish education, no question of identification, but it was rather free-wheeling. My brothers did go to Sunday school [inaudible] on Sundays. We did all kinds of outdoor things, so you mingle with community and whatever. My parents became known in the community. Both of them were very active and very confident. My mother was the [inaudible] all kinds of things, and read for us, every kind of advanced activity. My father was extremely able, and he became the treasurer of practically – anyway, he was very active. They gradually took part in other community political things. They felt they should take part, and they did, and they were accepted up to a point. However, there was always another area – there was a difference between the non-Jewish part of Lawrence, so much more socially elite [inaudible] Woodmere Academy, which really was substantially used by [inaudible] Jewish, sort of a liberal Jewish. They were not Orthodox.
EM: Were more assimilated, would you say? More assimilated?
TM: Yes, I would say. And yet, without any if or but about identification, it was clear. We did go to temple, and they did respect the temple. We had seder. I wouldn't say we always did, but we did. We knew what it was. [inaudible] was a good [inaudible].
EM: Did you observe Christmas?
TM: We had Christmas – my grandmother. We certainly did. It took me a long time, [inaudible] be honest with you, to understand why so many Jewish people here didn't practice Christmas. I didn't understand.
EM: How did you practice Christmas? Because I grew up in a much more traditional family, and, of course, Christmas was something we never identified with.
TM: Well, Christmas, of course, because my grandmother was very much German, came from a German background where Christmas was a part of their life, Christmas was a part of a family life. It took me years to understand why it was not well thought of, obviously, by Jewish people. But, to me, it was just a great big family [inaudible].
EM: Did you have decorations and things?
TM: Yes, we did.
EM: What did you have?
TM: Christmas tree. [inaudible.] Very attractive, lovely things. We had a great big tree. Actually, Christmas Day was celebrated. My grandmother, we used to go in to have Saturday lunch with her, and enjoy being with her and the family. But Christmas Day, my mother always invited the family to come to Long Island. [inaudible] wasn't huge, but it was a sizable house, and [inaudible] would be comfortable, perfectly lovely Christmas with cousins and uncles and aunts.
EM: Do you remember what the meal consisted of?
TM: Well, turkey, I guess. Sometimes it was. I remember one thing. For a while, they had that awful stuffed goose, and then that became against the law, probably because it was not right to stuff geese that way, and they eliminated it. I do remember [inaudible] –
EM: I don't remember hearing about this before. What was the problem?
TM: The problem was that they put geese in a great – this was out west, that they did that. They put geese in a big barrel and literally stuffed them. It was cruel, and they did till they got very big and the livers got very big.
EM: They were penned up?
TM: Yes, but then, fortunately, that was outlawed. [inaudible] So, we just had very luxurious – my mother. We did have servants. My mother had a Viennese cook [inaudible]. We had other servants. We had a house with a garden. My mother loved gardening. We had vegetables. We had a tennis court.
EM: Do you recall in your growing-up years experiencing any antisemitism?
TM: Very little, actually. However, I told you there was this other school, the Lawrence School, which was a totally non-Jewish –
EM: Protestant?
TM: Yes, yes. Occasionally, they and the Woodmere Academy had played hockey together and so forth. So there was always a little bit of tension. They did play together, but I was just perfectly aware that there was a difference between their group there and our group, which was mostly – finally, they did at Woodmere Academy, which grew, they had mostly non-Jewish professors, teachers, who were very good, excellent, and with always great respect for Jewish identification, but not much Jewish ritual in the school.
EM: No, of course not, it was secular, the school.
TM: Yes, they were really first-rate; they were good and a different kind. Gradually, the school deliberately increased having more non-Jewish children from the neighborhood.
EM: It was a day school, not a boarding school.
TM: It was a day school at the time, yes.
EM: Now, what did you do after you graduated from Woodmere Academy?
TM: After I graduated from Woodmere Academy, I went to Barnard first.
EM: So, what year did you graduate from Woodmere? Do you remember?
TM: ‘26, of course.
EM: You went to Barnard. Did you live there?
TM: No.
EM: Commuted?
TM: Wait, I did live there one year [inaudible] went to Barnard. My parents, that year, moved. They didn't sell the house that year because my oldest brother and his family lived with my family and commuted too. But my parents took an apartment in New York, very deliberately, so that I could commute easily and live comfortably there. This was very much my mother. My mother was obsessive. She was, I think, a little obsessive about me.
EM: Well, you were an only daughter.
TM: I was the only daughter.
EM: [inaudible] quite protective.
TM: She loved her sons and always wanted a daughter, and she always said so. No question about it. She was somewhat obsessed. [inaudible] lady, did all kinds of advanced things in her day. She was interested in child care, Dr. (Brill?), and in birth control. She started the birth control clinic down there.
EM: Your mother did?
TM: Yes, she was very active in the [inaudible]. Of course, the group that started the school were remarkable, too, because they had to raise the money to build the school and keep the school. And they did. [inaudible] all kinds, dozen different communities, and women, and they all went into different businesses and did all sorts of things. It's hard for me to remember it all, but I just remember that is what happened, and they made it possible. The school grew from fairly small, little [inaudible], and by the time I was graduating from Woodmere, I was about the second class that graduated from there. My next brother was the first one. The other one kept on going to –
EM: Ethical Culture.
TM: Ethical Culture, right. And then he went one year to another school because he was fairly young. Then he went to Harvard.
EM: And it was okay for them to go out of town, your brothers, but not for you?
TM: Well, Mother preferred me to be nearby if I could be. I didn't mind too much. There was a little while I thought I might want to go to Vassar. I had a very good friend who was going, but it wasn't [inaudible]. I know. Then my brother, the same older brother, was in love with and going with a wonderful girl whom I remained good friends for years, went to Barnard. She took me to Barnard and visited, and it really sort of gave me a feeling that this was a very good place. Anyway, I did go to Barnard my freshman year. During this time, my oldest brother went to Harvard and he became very good friends with Alan Morse, and they became extremely good friends. My mother was very hospitable, and for years and years, had young people in our house in the country for a weekday, the summer holidays, [inaudible], and they could invite their friends, and they did. I first knew Alan when I was ten years old because I was my brother's little sister.
EM: How much older was your brother than you?
TM: He was nine years older.
EM: So Alan also, approximately?
TM: No, he was eleven years older.
EM: So, Alan started coming to your house when you were really a child?
TM: That's right.
EM: Go on. This is getting interesting.
TM: He was a dear, and they all loved him. So, we all got to know each other. I was that little girl who was [inaudible] and finally got through and did go to Barnard. He began to be much more –
EM: Attentive?
TM: – attentive.
EM: You were, what, about eighteen at the time?
TM: Well, a little before. I was married when I was eighteen. I was engaged when I was seventeen.
EM: Really? And he was eleven years older.
TM: The only reason for that was because we knew him very well. My parents knew him very well. It was kind of odd, but there it was. Then, when I graduated from – well, finished Barnard, by that time, I was about engaged.
EM: How many years did you go to Barnard?
TM: One.
EM: Just one.
TM: Then I came right up to Cambridge, transferred to Radcliffe. They were very good, and let me transfer.
EM: Right away, or you waited a while?
TM: No, the next year. Transferred [inaudible].
EM: Had you ever lived out of New York before?
TM: No, but I traveled a lot, [inaudible] believe in travel [inaudible] I look back on it, she was quite a rather remarkable [inaudible] lady. She took my brother and myself out west, and she saw to it that we did – we used to go, like everybody else, Jewish people went to the Catskills [inaudible] did different things summers. Because we lived in Woodmere, Long Island, there was a club there, and it was a very fine swimming place with tennis and golf, and we did [inaudible] athletic things. I loved tennis. Never became a very good golfer, but I did love tennis. [Inaudible] played, or [inaudible] played [inaudible] and did different things. Then every once in a while, we traveled, and she encouraged traveling [inaudible].
EM: So, what year were you married? 1927? Is that right?
TM: Yes, exactly.
EM: And you moved up to Cambridge?
TM: Moved to Cambridge.
EM: And Alan was, of course, no longer in school?
TM: My Alan?
EM: Yes.
TM: He was already long since in business. He was already in his uncle's banking business.
EM: What was the name of the bank?
TM: United States Trust [inaudible] still on [inaudible] Street. Although it’s somewhat different, it’s not the family bank anymore, but still the same.
EM: Tell me about those years. You were at school. You were a full-time student?
TM: Yes and no. I started the first year. In order to make it possible, we lived in a hotel that was near Bay State Road.
EM: Myles Standish?
TM: Maybe something like that.
EM: The building that's now part of Boston University?
TM: I think so. I think that’s right [inaudible] right by the river. I lived there that year so that I could go to college and still have some [inaudible] whatever. Then, I worked, but I didn't – certainly the first year, I didn't take a full course. I only took about three courses to make it possible. The next year, we moved to Cambridge to an apartment I adored. We lived there and had a lovely time. Top floor of a two-family, little place on Berkeley Street. It was owned by a professor of MIT. Nice old people. They were darling, and it was convenient for my husband to get in town. Very easy for me to be there.
EM: Did he have a car? Do you recall?
TM: Yes, we did have a car. I also recall that he did not drive to town much. He took the streetcar.
EM: What did you study at Radcliffe?
TM: Well, first, I changed. I first thought I'd study history, then I majored in fine arts. That's when [inaudible]. In the second year, I did take a full course, five courses, then I became pregnant. I stayed out for half a year, whatever it was, and Radcliffe was absolutely out of this world. And I'm still deeply grateful to them.
EM: They let you continue?
TM: For whatever the reason, they let me continue. I wasn't living there, and I wasn't polluting anybody's mind. They just let me. They called me – why, God knows, because it was not because I was so excellent in my work at all, but they simply designated me a special student. So they let me take as long as I kept taking, which I did, courses, which you were required if I would want to graduate, and take divisions. Gradually, [inaudible] I had a child, and then I went back [inaudible] remember one thing that’s very important. In those days, you could have help. I realize now what a difference that makes. I could have help almost right away.
EM: You stayed in the two-family in Cambridge? Which is your first child?
TM: Edith.
EM: Edith?
TM: Yes. No, we only were in that Cambridge house one year. Then it was quite clear that my husband, by that time, he'd gone to Harvard, and he'd gone to Harvard Business School. That was before we were married. He went to his uncles. The bank was thriving under their care. 1895, it was started.
EM: What was his uncle's name?
TM: A.C. Ratshesky.
EM: So this was on his mother's family?
TM: It was, yes, his mother was his sister. Then there was another brother, Irv Ratshesky, too.
EM: They were both in the bank?
TM: Both in the bank. A.C. was by far the strong [inaudible]. No question. He was the one who really started it.
EM: Was the US Trust Company at that time thought of as a Jewish bank?
TM: Well, yes, I think it was thought of as a Jewish bank. However, again, like everything else, [inaudible] because my uncle has been rather prominent in the community. He had a lot of very able non-Jewish friends. So people who were brought on as the board of directors to the bank were not just Jewish. It was mixed. They had some extremely able non-Jewish people who were directors of the bank right from the beginning. Then, as time went on, did quite well. And then Alan, it was before we were married, went to them one day. One of them had two daughters, and one had no children. And Alan said, if he did reasonably, would there be an opportunity for him to join the bank and [inaudible] the bank. And they said, “Yes.” So he did graduate from business school, did okay, and then had sense enough to stay out for a year and go to the [inaudible] or something like that. And then was taken back from then on in the [inaudible] years later.
EM: Well, thinking back about those years, this must have been at the time of the crash and the Depression.
TM: Well, this came later. But this, believe me, was something, because by that time, I had Anne also.
EM: Now, Edith was born in what year?
TM: 1929.
EM: Edith. And Anne?
TM: Anne, ‘32.
EM: And Alan Jr.?
TM: Alan, ‘28. He was a bit younger.
EM: You mean ‘38? What year was Alan born? Alan Jr.? Is he the youngest?
TM: Yes.
EM: He has to be after Anne.
TM: Well, he was – about five years. It was eight years younger than Edie and about five years younger – but the crash came in 1929, right after Edith was born, literally. It was [inaudible]. It was a terrible crash. And she was a baby, and I was in the hospital. It was tough. It was very bad.
EM: Can you share some of your remembrances of that year with us? At the time of the crash?
TM: Edith?
EM: No, can you tell me what was happening in your life and the life of Boston at that time?
TM: Well, the life of Boston, of course, was very difficult because everywhere here the economics was very shaky, and nobody quite knew what was going to happen. The crash really was a frightful crash, and people lost money in droves, a great deal of money. In fact, Alan's uncle, A.C. Ratshesky – some Federal Reserve was in there, and they remember the Federal Reserve, which I think probably was a very fortunate thing at that time. They had great respect for my uncle, had great respect, I think, for the way the bank was run.
EM: The bank never failed?
TM: What?
EM: The bank never failed?
TM: No, let me tell you why not. Because they then wanted one or two banks to come join together. And one did, sort of forced to join, and they never got on. Meanwhile, Alan's uncle put [inaudible] like a half a million dollars into the bank.
EM: Of his own money?
TM: Of his own money. [inaudible] He did.
EM: That was a phenomenal amount of money in that time.
TM: Phenomenal amount of money. Now, he was a lot of things. [inaudible] very complicated because he was wonderful to us. When Alan's father died very early – Alan was a very young man, twenty-one or two, when his father died. I only knew him once, and then his mother was very ill and died. He had a lot of responsibility.
EM: What were his parents' names?
TM: Their name was – Rebecca and Jacob Morse, and they too were German. His mother was very ill for a long time, and Alan had younger twin brothers, who were then sixteen, seventeen years old.
EM: John and Robert.
TM: John and Robert. He really was sort of responsible. But the uncle was extremely helpful, gave him advice, and sort of stood by them in whatever ways he could, and he did. However, he was very, frankly – of course, he was wonderful to all of us, and his wife was a lovely lady. Just lovely. But he was very – I want to call – conceited. I don't like to use that word, but he thought a great deal of [himself]. He felt he was a big shot in the community, and for a while, he [inaudible] big store – Filene’s. They were sort of enemies, and each sort of rivaled the other at giving the most money or whatever was being given. Alan's uncle, I must say, got himself reasonably disliked by a lot of people in the community, because they thought they liked his wife very much, and they respected him very much, but there was some feeling, which took Alan a long while to overcome, years later. But those years of the crash were really very, very difficult, because nobody knew quite what was going to happen. And then, in another year or two, Roosevelt came in. Fortunately, he did practically everything that was right, and things straightened out, but it was not an easy time. We had enough to live on. It was comfortable, [inaudible] perfectly comfortably. I did have help while the children were little. Then, gradually, took a few more courses.
EM: I see. So, you took time off to have the children, and then you went back?
TM: Yes, and then would take another course or two, something like that. Then I got, like everybody else, wondering exactly what I was doing, and should I keep on going to take everything and do my divisions. I never forgot my husband Alan said to me – he said, “Look, you will always have many reasons for not finishing something. You're well on your way. You'd better finish. You'll never regret it.”
EM: So, what year did you actually graduate?
TM: 1934. I would have graduated had I – I always have to explain this because I'm older than I would look. I would have graduated – 1930 would have been my year had I gone right through. I graduated 1934, a few years later. It didn’t matter, of course.
EM: Now it seems to me, from what you've said, that your mother and her community work was a great inspiration to you, because I know that you're very, very involved here.
TM: It was. It was.
EM: How did you start to get involved in the community here?
TM: Well, that was largely through my father, who was very active [inaudible] the community in which I live.
EM: They both were.
TM: They both were in different ways, both in Jewish and non-Jewish. Both.
EM: But you were home with the children, I suppose, until they were on their feet more or less.
TM: Oh, surely. But then, gradually started getting interested in something or other, meeting people I began to know and like, and encouraged doing it. For instance, the League of Women Voters was something in which I became interested through good friends very quickly. Thought it was extremely interesting.
EM: Who was it that got you started with this? Do you remember the names of the women?
TM: No, I know it was Dorothy Brown, who was the chief person. [inaudible] I wanted, actually, to be interested in something which I could have some intellectual interest. I’m not saying – I just did. I didn't want to just be a club woman. I didn't want to do that. I didn't play bridge then. I don’t play bridge now. I'm sure I should, but I don’t. I regret it some.
EM: I don't know how to play myself. I regret it, too.
TM: I think I'm too lazy. [inaudible] Anyway, gradually one thing or another began [inaudible] began to develop interests in different kinds of activities [inaudible], but I always was interested, always took part in the Jewish money-raising fairs. In fact, I think at one time, at some idiotically early age, Mrs. [inaudible] and I ran the women's division for a year.
EM: Of the Jewish Philanthropies?
TM: Yes.
EM: Do you recall when that was? In the ‘30s?
TM: No, I don't [inaudible]. I just remember [inaudible]. I always stayed, certainly very sympathetic, and had great support for [inaudible] on there. Trying to think what other – and gradually, through League of Women Voters, I got interested in housing.
EM: I really want to hear a lot about that because I know that there's a building named after you on Longwood Avenue. But obviously, that was the end of a very, very long career in Brookline. How did that start? You must have been a pioneer in public housing.
TM: Well through the League of Women Voters, one of their interests was – you see, the time the war came – it was Roosevelt and war, and there was the Wagner whatever, the housing bill, where it was desperately important. There wasn't enough housing built during the war, and a lot of what was built was dreadful. As you know, some of that still exists. But there wasn't enough being built, and many of the returning soldiers and families really did not have adequate places. So, a law, a federal law, was the Wagner something –
EM: I know it myself, but I can’t think of it either.
TM: – that would make it possible for local communities to establish housing authorities if they felt it was appropriate to build or to help build or help finance housing for returning veterans coming back. The League of Women Voters in Brookline made a study as to whether that would be a valuable, useful thing in Brookline and whether a housing authority should be established. The town voted. A lot of us pushed for that, and they did. I knew Lew (Lewis) Weinstein very well as a good friend and a very great, very great [inaudible] for housing.
EM: What year did you move to Brookline?
TM: Oh, we moved to Brookline. We bought the house in 1929, I guess.
EM: Really?
TM: Yes.
EM: During those tough times?
TM: Yes. Alan knew by then that he was going to be here for good, and we looked around [inaudible] a lot of things. Moved out of Cambridge, [inaudible] looked and found this house, which was near where he had grown up, as he grew up in the house –
EM: 17 Hawes Street.
TM: That’s right.
EM: And your house –? What number Borland was it?
TM: 32. Right on the corner with –
EM: Chatham and Longwood Mall.
TM: So, taking a little risk, of course, we did buy that.
EM: And you got involved in Brookline activities right away?
TM: Alan got involved in Brookline activities much more quickly, much more because zoning issues began to come up in the place opposite us, and he began to be active. He was able, and the minute he started, he was encouraged to do all kinds of things, [inaudible], recreation commission, town commission, town members, all kinds of things. Eventually, he was a selectman.
EM: [Telephone rings.] [inaudible] get the phone. I'll shut this off. [Recording paused.] Okay, we were talking about Alan's involvement in Brookline. He became a selectman.
TM: He became increasingly involved in different [inaudible] different committees in Brookline – advisory committee, [inaudible] committee. Why, I will never know. [inaudible] second Jewish selectman, Reuben Lurie, was the first. Alan was the second.
EM: I want to share a story with you about Reuben Lurie. Of course, I didn't know him, but he died just a few years after we came to Boston. His son, who, I believe, was a Professor out west some place.
TM: [Inaudible] wonderful young man.
EM: He came to Boston, of course, to make the arrangements. And my husband officiated at his funeral. He said to my husband and son – I don't recall his name. Do you?
TM: Jonathan.
EM: Perhaps.
TM: Jonathan.
EM: Yes, yes. He said, “No, my father had all of these books in the attic. All these books.” And so [inaudible] went over to look at the books; he had a marvelous, marvelous collection of very, very important Judaica. Some of it, my husband arranged to be given, I believe, to Hebrew College. Then Jonathan asked my husband if he would like to have something, and he did. It was a [inaudible]. I don’t know if you know what that is, but a very important edition of the Talmud. So, Bernard had it; it was in shambles. It was totally falling apart. One of the first editions of the Talmud from Vilna, in Poland [Editor’s Note: Today Vilna is Vilnius, Lithuania]. He had it completely rebound and uses it to this day. And so we speak about Reuben Lurie all the time. That's a little story that I can tell you.
TM: Reuben and my husband were very, very good friends. They actually [inaudible] in college together, and although they weren't – they always have known each other.
EM: Because one went into law and went into business?
TM: Yes, grew up together and knew each other. I was very fond of him. We were mutually very good friends, always, with him. [inaudible] Very fond of his wife, Ethel. We saw each other a great deal.
EM: Let's get back to your involvement in the housing authority and its development. So, what went on?
TM: Well, it was decided the town had to vote to establish a housing authority, and it did. And of those people, when most of them were elected, one person in each community was to be appointed by the governor; it happened, frankly, through Lew Weinstein. I think it was Herter then. The years go, and I don’t –
EM: Christian Herter? He was the governor?
TM: I think so.
EM: Go on.
TM: I'm not sure, but let’s say it was because it was long ago. Because I think that law was passed around 1948, something like that. Anyway, they appointed me the state’s appointee on that board at that time. I was on the board for two years. Then later, I think somebody else was [inaudible].
EM: [inaudible]
TM: [inaudible] but became extremely interested in the relationship and the need not for just bricks and mortar [inaudible] all kinds of community and social and non-profit help. I was very aware of the types of help people needed. We needed to get the community interested in supporting and bringing services that were needed by the people, [inaudible], and some kind of administration could be of enormous help in the community. So I did work on that, and then got very interested in housing. But finally, we built the [inaudible] usual political entanglements [inaudible] –
EM: And it’s still going on.
TM: – housing. At first, it was just housing for veterans, then there was housing, and [inaudible].
EM: Where were some of these buildings located?
TM: What?
EM: Where was some of this housing located?
TM: Well, one was right on [inaudible] Street [inaudible] big place [inaudible] the veterans housing. We took over and built really family units. Met with [inaudible] a million times a day near where that playground is.
EM: You mean on Egmont Street? On Thatcher Street [inaudible]?
TM: [inaudible]
EM: Did you take any existing housing and rehabilitate it, or everything was built from scratch?
TM: No, at that point, everything was built from scratch, because there really wasn't much that was [inaudible]. They really didn't use – didn’t make enormous things. They made moderate size [inaudible].
EM: Speaking about the large building in Brookline Village near (High?) Street, [inaudible] is behind the fire station [inaudible].
TM: No, that’s the [inaudible].
EM: No, not that fire station, the one on Route 9, on Boylston Street.
TM: [inaudible]
EM: Know where Carvel is on Route 9? Across from the Brookline Savings Bank.
TM: Well, you know [inaudible] the thing named for me is –
EM: That’s on Longwood Avenue. [inaudible] on Park Street.
TM: Yeah. And then there was a smaller one that’s right on – it's still in existence [inaudible] housing.
EM: Across from Brookline Hospital?
TM: You go down Harvard Street, and then you turn right past the church, and it's right there on the opposite side of the church. There's a whole little unit of –
EM: Which church? St. Mary's Church?
TM: No, not Saint Mary’s. The corner there. You turn right above Harvard Street. On the left, [inaudible]. Marion –
EM: Oh, Marion Street.
TM: Marion Street.
EM: And what about 99 Kent? Were you involved with that also? 99 Kent Street? Very nice building on Kent Street near Brookline Village.
TM: [Inaudible].
EM: You can go on. It's not important.
TM: But anyway, then because of the gradual interest in housing for the elderly and the services they needed, the kind of housing that was appropriate for them, [inaudible] work with the federal people, which [inaudible] –
EM: Were you involved with that yourself?
TM: Yes.
EM: Really?
TM: Then, when the time came, they [inaudible].
EM: I'm sure you were quite pleased.
TM: Yes, it was very sweet of them. But I have been interested in housing ever since, not that I've ever done a terrible lot more about it, although I am on the board now with the JCHE.
EM: Jewish Community Housing for the Elderly.
TM: Yes, Mandy [inaudible]. She’s just fabulous. Housing is very difficult. We worked [inaudible] – worked a long time with the League, trying to keep them when they were building those awful things way down – well, it was just horrible. It was South Boston. They were building those huge things near the water.
EM: Columbia Point?
TM: Yes, Columbia Point, and that was a nightmare.
EM: You were involved with that also?
TM: I was involved with that in terms of trying, one, to work with some of the city utilities to get them some transportation, and also to work to form a community committee that would be interested in trying to understand and develop what health needs, what transportation needs, and what social service needs and childcare were needed, and things like this. Makes all the difference in the world.
EM: Comprehensive. It wasn't just the building; there was more to it.
TM: Can be [inaudible].
EM: Was Columbia Point built mostly for veterans, also, or was it just a general housing project?
TM: No, Columbia Point was definitely built as a huge veterans’ project.
EM: After the Second World War?
TM: It was enormous and much too big; anything like that was too big countrywide. That was one of the tragedies [inaudible].
EM: [inaudible] smaller and smaller.
TM: I know going to the state house with others urging not to build such big things. Build smaller units with service possibilities.
EM: People feel more like human beings. They don't feel like numbers.
TM: It's just awful. You read what's happening in Chicago and wherever. It’s just something awful. Are you sure you don’t need a cup of coffee?
EM: No, I’m fine, thank you. I’m terrific, terrific. I'm enjoying this tremendously.
TM: Because I’ll make you coffee.
EM: No, I know. That’s perfectly okay.
TM: But I’ve got Taster’s Choice, which I’m not ashamed of. I like it. I’d make it for you.
EM: I'm really fine. Now, you talked about the veterans, but we sort of skipped over the war years. I was wondering how you were personally involved in the war effort. I have a feeling, knowing your personality, that you did a few things.
TM: I did.
EM: What did you do?
TM: Rather odd. We did everything slightly backwards, I guess. Well, Alan was older. He was beyond the draft age. But he became involved. He was called on to be involved. He was head of the blood donor program. He did a wonderful job with [inaudible]. He also was on the draft board in Brookline [inaudible] years. Tried to do a very good job of that, but he did all sorts of that kind of service that was very important. Long ago, he tried to get in the Navy in the First World War, but his eyes wouldn't let him. So, what he did in the other years – did all kinds of really important, wartime service. Now, as time went on, the children were coming up. And everybody I saw [inaudible] knew something about some of their program, like wage control and housing, whatever, whatever. Because I had, very frankly, married very young, I never worked. I never really had a job. You couldn't take [inaudible].
EM: I wouldn’t say that. You didn't put it right.
TM: I realized that through the civil service, they were recruiting people, or really varieties of people, who didn't necessarily have a great particular gift or profession. I applied, and they needed people, and because I had been familiar with some of the war programs that were [inaudible].
EM: Because of Alan?
TM: No, because of League of Women Voters, because of my experience there, because of the wage control, things like that, different things. They took a chance, and I got a job. I didn't know whether I should have or not, but children were [inaudible] at school, and I probably shouldn't have. I had many regrets since.
EM: Taking this job?
TM: For having taken the job, which wasn’t terribly interesting. It was in the wage control division of the (War?) Labor Board, in the regional office of the (War?) Labor Board. They had a very excellent man who was in charge of it with some very good people.
EM: It was a full-time job?
TM: It was a full-time job. They actually had to process the wage control cases that were coming through the Labor Department, and all the industries [inaudible], particularly in my case, [inaudible], which are like the metal freight industries, in the heart of the war industries, and some of the industries in Connecticut [inaudible].
EM: Aircraft, things like that?
TM: Not aircraft.
EM: You said metal trade, that's why. What types of industry?
TM: Well, there were the big war industries in Connecticut, the arms industries. There’s many in Rhode Island, for instance. All around here were many, many metal trades, skilled metal trades, industries that needed to be transferred.
EM: Redirected to the war effort.
TM: Redirected to the war effort, absolutely. One of the great problems was that everybody in all the industries then were competing for very competent people, and therefore they needed wage control in order to keep a hold on. It was absolutely fascinating. I have to tell you, I loved it.
EM: Even though you say now you regret it.
TM: Well, I have some feeling of guilt as to whether I took too much time away from the children. [inaudible] more than I should have.
EM: How long did you do it?
TM: It was about three years because it was just from the time of the beginning of the war until the end.
EM: ‘42 to ‘45, approximately.
TM: Exactly, just that, and it was fascinating. I dealt with labor people, dealt with industry people, dealt with lawyers. I had to learn a good bit of economics.
EM: Was Alan supportive of this?
TM: Up to a point. I think he was – he knew it was important to me. I'm not sure that he liked it very much. And at the end of the time, I got an offer of another job. And at that point, he said, “I don't want you to. Please don't do that. Your children are still small, and I'd say it's more important that you spend more time at home.” I did for better or worse. [inaudible]
EM: Actually, Alan Jr. must have been at home, but the girls must have been a little older.
TM: The girls were older. Alan was about four or five. The girls were about thirteen, fifteen, something like that, hard to remember.
EM: I think you’re remembering quite a bit.
TM: It's sort of strange trying to bring it back. I mean, the timing is sort of odd. But there's no question. I adored having that job. I did. I found it very fulfilling. [inaudible] wondered whether I should have majored in something else. Look, I've also settled. Time’s gone by. I'm not going to change or reverse my life. I've settled for what I've done.
EM: A lot of people – you see, Theresa, you did what a lot of people were not able to do because they were forced into the labor force, and you weren't forced into the labor force. We wouldn't have so many of the social welfare services and the housing services that are available today if you took a job. So you have to think about it that way, too.
TM: [inaudible] That was a very tough period, and it needed a lot of help. When that stopped, that's when I became increasingly – when that stopped, that’s when I then became increasingly interested in the League of Women Voters and Family Service. That’s when that started.
EM: Yes, I'd like to talk a little bit about that Family Service.
TM: That's when I was chairman of the State League of Women Voters at one time. That was quite a long time ago. And then became increasing –
EM: It was after the war that you were chairman. So it must have been the late ‘40s or the early ‘50s?
TM: Sort of the early – ‘48, ‘50. One thing moves into another through the housing and interest in –
EM: Human services.
TM: Human services, good for you. Interested in that. Someone asked me if I would become a member of the board of the Greater Boston Family Service and be in charge of their public policy, some of their public policy. So, I became fascinated by that. Stayed in that for a very long time and found it very interesting.
EM: What kinds of things did you do for the Family Service? Well, why don't we wait until the clock stops, because I don't want to miss any of this? It must be 12 o’clock.
TM: Well, from that it was sort of administrative and working, or encouraging, or trying to promote different aspects of work that they were involved in, thinking the Family Service were kind of counseling that they were doing. I was not in favor. I thought they were moving into psychiatric counseling when they shouldn’t, at the time, and was glad to try and move it away from that. But the counseling of families, family units, children and families, in my opinion, shouldn't be separated. They shouldn't. I eventually did one thing after another. I was on the National Board of Family Service for many years. Found that very interesting. [inaudible] the country.
EM: What groups would you say were benefited? Which groups benefited from Family Service here in Boston? Were they ethnic groups? Were they minorities?
TM: I find that very hard to say, because it –
EM: Was just general –?
TM: – depended entirely on the skill, and the understanding, and the knowledge of – look, it's no different from now. We’re dealing with Haitian groups. We're dealing with endless numbers, this flood of volunteers, which they try to develop – interpreters, all sorts of people who can deal with it. You might have more and more and more and more greater varieties.
EM: Were a lot of these families of veterans after the war? Were they minority groups? Were they Hispanic groups?
TM: Yes, all kinds, because [inaudible]. There were veterans, and they did some – they have, even lately, done some service work for veterans’ families who needed help. But it's very hard to put your finger on. You just know people need advice and help with children. Because at the moment, one thing that drives me up the wall – I just think the need for more adequate childcare than what we've seen. It just breaks my heart. Here, the refugees – people need help. They don't have as much help as they used to be able to get. We ought to put some of the things together [inaudible]. I don’t know the answer, but I know the need is [inaudible].
EM: So, all these activities really is an outgrowth of your involvement with the League of Women Voters? Would you say that? That was the [inaudible].
TM: I would say that really started a great deal of my activity in a lot of the community affairs.
EM: Now I also know that you've been involved with different foundations.
TM: Right.
EM: Can we talk a little bit about that?
TM: Sure. Glad to.
EM: You have your own foundation, the A.C. Ratshesky Foundation.
TM: The family foundation. That’s A.C. Ratshesky Foundation. My respect for him remains enormous, because that was founded in 1916, long before foundations were a thing. He founded it with his money, and it was a family foundation. Definitely, of all the people [inaudible] the oldest surviving character, and they’re young, but they're great. My children, my nephews and nieces, they're very interested. My daughter-in-law, Cecily, is the executive for it. She tried for it, and they all thought she is very able. She is terrific, and she is very active in the [inaudible] Foundation. She had done a lot. She was the Head of Development [inaudible].
EM: What are the interests of the Ratshesky Foundation? Where do they invest their funds?
TM: They don't have any one thing, as he didn't, from his charter. It's in the greater Boston area; it's not all of the state. It includes Jewish interests, Jewish needs, and Jewish affairs. It includes a lot of work with youth.
EM: In general?
TM: In general, all kinds – battered women, battered places, help for women who need help, help for all kinds of young people, music for some cultural things too, cultural things that reach out, for whom it isn't available. Music in the public schools and art [inaudible], but they have to make their very careful judgments, because theirs is not a very large foundation as they go. [inaudible] but they do – very careful to try to [inaudible] different things [inaudible] –
EM: So, social service, culture –
TM: It was meant to be a rather broad-based culture, but yes, we can include cultural things, as long as there's someone [inaudible]. Very much in the social service, being with young people, and Spanish. We have done a wonderful job helping some Spanish groups get a foothold on getting assistance. And Chinese – very diverse.
EM: Have you been on the board of the foundation since you came into the family?
TM: Well, not in the very beginning, because at the very beginning, it was just the senior gentleman. But then, when they began to go off and as I began to be more interested in different arts and communities, they put me on and put other cousins on.
EM: Now, you've been involved in other foundations also?
TM: The other foundation, is the one that I, just to be honest, resigned from, is the Hyams Foundation, and that's a much bigger one.
EM: And what is their direction?
TM: Their direction also is really rather general. It isn't any one thing. But that's much bigger. They give three million dollars a year away; it’s a lot of money.
EM: It certainly is.
TM: They have a board of trustees, and they have an excellent staff, and they've diversed, both staff and board, Spanish and Black, and different groups. It's not just one set group. Wonderful woman who's their director, Beth Smith, who you would love. She's [inaudible]. Very able. They, too, don't really go for national things, but they, of course, have enough money to give to the Children's Museum. They've been active for years, and years, and years. [inaudible] Many different kinds of musical [inaudible] important –
EM: What about things like Family Service? Do they give to Family Service?
TM: Yes, they have given [inaudible]. They've been very [inaudible]. Lately, Family Service had a rough time.
EM: I know.
TM: Very bad. They've lost a lot of money, and the money’s been short. It's a little hard, but they certainly have still [inaudible] Family Service and many other things like that. The Haitian groups into the community service in Cambridge – Cambridge, Lynn, Boston, sort of near about. They don't go too far. Geographically, they don't try to go too far afield. But once in a while, they work together with other foundation groups. They work very closely with them, which is a very good thing to coordinate the efforts.
EM: Is Alan involved with you in any of these foundation activities?
TM: Well, he's been involved on not Hyams –
EM: Not Hyams, no.
TM: No, Family, yes. [inaudible]. They all are.
EM: I meant your husband, Alan Sr.
TM: My husband Alan?
EM: Was he involved?
TM: Yes, he was.
EM: What other kinds of things did you do together?
TM: Well, interested in a lot of things together. He was extremely musical. Music was his avocation. He studied it, he knew it, and he loved it. Went to a lot of music. I shared that. He became very interested in the New England Conservatory, which I still am. He was on the Board of Governors [inaudible]. He was very active. He was very active in New England Medical Center. He was in that Board of Governors and many of those committees. I finally did become the chairman of the Women's Committee of that. [inaudible] can't keep up, but he was very active and very valuable. He knew Dr. Proger very well [Editor’s Note: Dr. Samuel Proger was the Chair of the Department of Medicine at Tufts that helped develop the Tufts-New England Medical Center.] He was [inaudible]. He was very active with the Jewish community. He was very active with the Anti-Defamation League; he was on the national board of that.
EM: What years would you say? The ‘50s? The ‘60s?
TM: Yes.
EM: What year did he die?
TM: ‘80.
EM: ‘80, just shortly after we arrived here.
TM: Right. [inaudible] He was very active at that [inaudible]. We cared very much about him. Got the award [inaudible].
EM: He's honored by the ADL?
TM: Yes.
EM: I'm sure you were right at his side, helping him out.
TM: I don’t know.
EM: You don't know? I do, I know.
TM: [Inaudible] that much himself. [inaudible] very much about our own–
EM: Family life?
TM: Well, [inaudible] lifelong religious life.
EM: Let's talk about it.
TM: Alan was brought up in a much – mine, as I explained to you, was – well, you used the word.
EM: Assimilated?
TM: Assimilated, more or less, without any question about the identification. Most of the children I grew up with families –
EM: You were culturally Jewish.
TM: – were Jewish. Right. And we had some celebrations at home, Jewish celebrations. I always had the greatest respect and greatest [inaudible]. My Alan, of course, was brought up in a much more Jewish atmosphere. However, it was even by then a reforming Jewish atmosphere. I think you probably know that his grandfather and his father were presidents of the temple.
EM: Temple Israel.
TM: Yes.
EM: His father, Jacob. And his grandfather was named (Morris?) [inaudible]?
TM: No, maybe another Jacob. Because he was always interested in music, he was on the music committee.
EM: At the temple?
TM: The temple. He had great respect for Mr. Fromm and for everything. I remember he sang with pride. He played the shofar occasionally in the temple service and cared very much [inaudible] really regularly. He always went, and I was with him. But he had a much more – well, going to Sunday school [inaudible] –
EM: His religious training was greater.
TM: Yes, it was. But our children, my girls, were both confirmed. Went to Temple Israel. Were confirmed. Think it was Rabbi Levi. Alan was not. He started, but then he went to [inaudible] questionable years.
EM: He’s come back. He's at the temple now.
TM: Oh, I know. I'm so glad. [inaudible] who cares and has great respect. But on the other hand, I have to say my grandchildren made me know, Sumner is much more Jewishly –
EM: Edith's husband? Sumner Milender.
TM: He's much more Jewishly oriented, I think, in general [inaudible] education, and does a lot for Brandeis, cares a lot for Brandeis. And they attend and go, whatever it is, they [inaudible]. They don't go to Temple Israel.
EM: Well, they live at a distance.
TM: Yes, they have a reason. Then Ann and her husband – she's divorced now, I'm sorry to say, a few years ago. They'd been married thirty years. Her son lived in Kansas. She has a son, only son, and he has two children. She has a darling daughter who has a child, who lives in San Francisco.
EM: Do you have any great-grandchildren?
TM: Nine.
EM: Nine great-grandchildren? How old is the eldest?
TM: Eight, and they go down to seven months. Latest little one is in Kansas right now, is about seven, eight months. We can't believe it either. There they are, because Edie has three children. They were married, and they were all children, so she has eight.
EM: Your children all married Jews?
TM: No, not by any means.
EM: Your children? Ann didn't?
TM: Ann did [inaudible].
EM: So, your children did, but your grandchildren didn't.
TM: Children did [inaudible] each one, and the grandchildren were very varied. One did. My grandson in Kansas, my daughter's son, married a perfectly lovely girl, very devoutly Jewish in her family, and bring their children up that way. She came from Louisville, and they belong to the temple or whatever. However, they all are extremely respectful. All the rest of them, I have to say, did not marry. Very different. But in every –
EM: Well, Alan still has a chance. His children are still unmarried.
TM: Every service included a rabbi and whoever else. Every grandchild, they all did. It was very respectful, which is good. They still come up. Several who come up, like very much to come up. They love seder service.
EM: Who has the seders in your family now?
TM: Edith and Sumner. They do it beautifully. Very nice. [inaudible] whenever the children.
EM: So that's sort of a time that the whole family gathers together?
TM: As much as they can.
EM: As much as they can.
TM: So many of them, they can't.
EM: Is there anything else you want to talk about with relationship to the Jewish community, because our time is coming to a close in just a few minutes.
TM: Sure. Well, I care for deeply –
EM: I understand that, in terms of your involvement, Alan's involvement, your involvement together.
TM: But there isn't as much things I could be more involved in. Might be perfectly willing [inaudible] not willing to be involved in everything.
EM: In terms about the ‘60s and ‘70s, when you were more active. You were both involved with philanthropy. You said you were the chairman of the Women's Division, and he was involved in the Anti-Defamation League. Was he involved in anything with the Federation itself, with the Jewish Philanthropists?
TM: I think he was a big supporter –
EM: Of course, I understand that. [inaudible] leadership –
TM: But as far as social service, that was your department. Were you involved in Jewish social service at all? I know you said you run the Jewish housing right now, but in the earlier years.
TM: No, except that it came along with the other aspects of services, I wouldn't say in particular.
EM: When I phoned you a couple weeks ago, we made this appointment. You were very tentative about this. You felt that you didn't really know if you had anything to say, but I don't think you could agree with that today. Could you? I think you had a lot to say.
TM: No, I don’t know that it’s what should be said.
EM: I enjoyed listening.
TM: What's useful.
EM: Well, that's not the point, what’s useful.
TM: [inaudible] I had a feeling that my entrance into the Jewish community in Boston, of course, came by way of my marriage.
EM: Yes, but you were very involved in the general community in Boston, and that's important.
TM: With all their friends, when it was all in that general way, just gradually, then moved to the other, more specific thing.
EM: You said earlier that you didn't know a lot about your background, your grandparents, and all that. But because we do something like this, your grandchildren are going to be able to know about you, and that's the important thing.
TM: I can't explain now, except at that time – I don't know. It's sort of an odd [inaudible]. I can’t remember why I didn’t – I remember my mother talking about her father, who she did adore and died early, and who obviously left me, to my amazement, extraordinarily well off, even at that time. My uncle was very successful with my father. I don't mean wildly. But I don't know why I didn't ask more about them. I know very little, but I knew my grandmother and my aunt's uncles on my mother’s side. But I don't remember [inaudible], they were lovely people, but quite Germanic.
EM: You said you spoke German as a child. You said that.
TM: I had a nurse.
EM: A German nurse?
TM: A German nurse, and so talked German. My mother talked German, whatever. But I always talked English too, and then she left the time of the war. I must have been about four or five years old, and that was the end of that.
EM: Can you still –?
TM: Then I talked French at school. Yes, I can still – interestingly, there's something that remained in my ear from the German that I can still understand. When I talk to people, they know [inaudible] German. That's something which interests me, because it's the way you learn language.
EM: Theresa, I want to thank you very much for all of this. You certainly fulfilled all of my expectations. You are a remarkable woman.
TM: I'm not a remarkable woman.
EM: Yes, you are.
TM: I’m not [inaudible].
EM: Because you're a product of your times, which is true, but you did so much with your time, and that was the important thing.
TM: [inaudible]
EM: No, you did.
TM: Now I'm drifting.
EM: Okay, I think it's time to say –
TM: [inaudible] Anyway, I think you're great too.
EM: Thanks a lot.
TM: [inaudible] very deeply devoted to Bernard.
EM: Thank you for saying that.
TM: Deeply. Beautiful man.
EM: Thank you.
